APPLYING SUGGESTIBILITY RESEARCH TO FORENSIC INTERVIEWING

1. APPLYING SUGGESTIBILITY RESEARCH TO FORENSIC INTERVIEWING L. Dennison Reed, Psy.D.

2. The interview strategies that follow are borrowed primarily from the “NICHD” Forensic Interview Protocol The NICHD protocol, developed by Michael Lamb et al., is an empirically derived semi-structured interview protocol that has undergone more research in actual CSA investigations than any other forensic interview protocol It has become the ‘gold standard’ for forensic interview protocols Elements of this protocol are also suitable for conducting CSA ‘screening’ interviews, which are sometimes less comprehensive than full-blown forensic interviews

3. Seven Ways to Elicit Accurate and Detailed Information from Children Without Resorting to Leading

4. Seven Ways to Elicit Accurate and Detailed Information from Children Without Resorting to Leading Avoid ‘interviewer bias’ Encourage children to tell the truth Develop rapport Rely on open-ended questions as much as possible Use the “practice narrative” (to encourage detailed responses) Discourage guessing Empower the child to disagree with you and to correct your mistakes

5. #1 AVOID INTERVIEWER BIAS • Maintain an objective stance • Do not assume that the information provided by 3rd parties (e.g., parents) is necessarily accurate • Always consider multiple hypotheses and explore the merits of each one

6. #2: ENCOURAGE CHILDREN TO TELL THE TRUTH Kids don’t necessarily assume that telling the truth is important during forensic interviews so they need to be told Use a developmentally appropriate means of assessing their understanding of “truth” and “lie”

7. Children’s statements during Forensic Interviews (CSA Screening Interviews) can serve as theMost Compelling Evidence of Abuse Since forensic interviews often occur months or even years before a case goes to trial, children’s memory regarding details of the abuse at the time of the forensic interview is often superior to their memory at the time of trial Children may also be less anxious and more willing to discuss their abuse during sensitive, one-on-one forensic interviews than they are during a formal trial where there are many unfamiliar spectators

8. Although many children provide compelling abuse allegations during forensic interviews (CSA screening), their allegations may be excluded by the Court or may be viewed by the Court and Jurors as not credible because the child failed to demonstrate the “competence to take the oath” during the forensic/screening interview

9. CHILDERN’S COMPETENCE TO TAKE THE OATH • The ‘competence to take the oath’ refers to the witness’ ability to demonstrate: • An understanding of the difference between truth and falsehood, and • An appreciation of the obligation to tell the truth (i.e., realizing that lying can result in negative consequences) • Most often, challenges to children’s competence to take the oath center on younger children—especially preschoolers

10. Incompetent Children or Incompetent Interviewers? Even though kids as young as 3-years-old often recognize the difference between lying and telling the truth and recognize that lying is ‘bad,’ they often appear incompetent when they are questioned in a developmentally inappropriate fashion

11. AGE-RELATED TRENDS IN CHILDREN’S COMPETENCE TO TAKE THE OATH Children under 9 or 10 are not good at: explaining differences defining terms generating examples

12. Developmentally Inappropriate“Truth-Lie” questions for children under 9-10 “What’ is the difference between the truth and a lie?” “What does it mean to tell the truth?” “Can you give me an example of a lie/the truth?”

13. Other truth/lie questions that should be avoided with young children • “Have you ever told a lie?” • Hypothetical questions about the consequences for lying, particularly if the child is the hypothetical liar:“What would happen if you told a lie? • Hypothetical questions that require the child to acknowledge that theinterviewer is lying: “If ‘I’ said my shirt is white (when it’s actually blue), would that be the truth or a lie?” • Many children will perform poorly when asked these questions despite being quite capable of identifying statements as true or false and recognizing that one can ‘get in trouble’ for lying

14. Tom Lyon and Karen Saywitz constructed a developmentally sensitive protocol for Qualifying Young Children to Take the Oath The Lyon & Saywitz protocol is especially well-suited for children ages 3 through 8 Many children as young as 3 and 4 have been found to be competent to take the oath when using this protocol See handout: www.denreed.com

15. The Lyon & Saywitz Protocol • Involves presenting four truth/lie “difference” tasks and four “morality” tasks using pictures as a reference point • The colorized pictures should be used instead of black and white copies to aid the child in distinguishing between the objects used (e.g., a ‘red’ apple vs. an orange) • Very young children and children with short attention spans are often drawn to the colorful pictures and attend well to the tasks

16. Introduction of the Truth-Lie Task “I talk with lots of children. It’s important that they always tell me the truth. So, before we begin, I want to make sure that you understand how important it is to tell the truth.”

17. EXAMPLES OF LYON & SAYWITZ’S“TRUTH – LIE TASK”

18. TRUTH VS. LIE TASK (1) Here's a picture. Look at this animal--what kind of animal is this? OK, that's a [child's label]. LISTEN to what these girls say about the [child's label]. One of them will tell a LIE and one will tell the TRUTH, and YOU'LL tell ME which girl tells the TRUTH. (point to girl on the left) THIS girl looks at the [child's label] and says "IT'S a [child's label]." (point to girl on the right) THIS girl looks at the [child's label] and says "IT'S a FISH." Which girl told the TRUTH?

19. TRUTH VS. LIE TASK (2) Here's another picture. Look at this food--what kind of food is this? OK, that's a [child's label]. LISTEN to what these girls say about the [child's label]. One of them will tell a LIE, and one will tell the TRUTH. (point to girl on the left) THIS girl looks at the [child's label] and says "IT'S an [child's label]." (point to girl on the right) THIS girl looks at the [child's label] and says "IT'S a BANANA." Which girl told the TRUTH?

20. EXAMPLES OF LYON & SAYWITZ’S “MORALITY TASK”

21. Here's a School Principal. She wants to know what happened to these boys. Well, ONE of these boys is GONNA GET IN TROUBLE for what he says, and YOU'LL tell ME which boy is GONNA GET IN TROUBLE. LOOK (point to left boy). This boy tells the TRUTH. (point to right boy) This boy tells a LIE. Which boy is GONNA GET IN TROUBLE? MORALITY TASK (1)

22. MORALITYTASK (2) Here's a Lady who comes to visit these girls at home. She wants to know what happened to these girls. Well, ONE of these girls is GONNA GET IN TROUBLE for what she says. LOOK (point to left girl) This girl tells a LIE. (point to girl on right) This girl tells the TRUTH. Which girl is GONNA GET IN TROUBLE?

23. Example of Lyon & Saywitz Truth/Lie Protocol Used During a Videotaped Forensic Interview

24. It is quite unlikely that a child would ‘guess’ all the correct answers to the Lyon & Saywitz Protocol The likelihood of a child guessing the correct answer to all 4 “difference” questions and all 4 “morality” questions is 1 in 400. (The same probability as tossing a coin and getting “heads” 8 times in a row)

25. Advantages of the Lyon & Saywitz Protocol for Assessing Children’s Competence to Take the Oath Because it is developmentally appropriate for very young kids, it maximizes their likelihood of being found competent by the court The visual images used in the protocol capture the attention of young and inattentive kids This protocol has been tested on the front-lines in real-life child sexual abuse cases It passes muster in court

26. Elicit a Promise to Tell the Truth Children are more likely to at least ‘try’ to tell the truth when they make a promise to do so Judges are often more inclined to admit statements that were made ‘under oath’

27. Advantages of the Lyon & Saywitz Method for Assessing Children’s Understanding of “Truth-Lie” Because it is developmentally appropriate for very young kids, it maximizes their likelihood of appearing competent The visual images capture the attention of young kids It has been tested on the front-lines in real-life child sexual abuse cases It passes muster in court.

28. #3 DEVELOP RAPPORT Reduces suggestibility when child knows what’s expected. Enhances trust and greater willingness to talk about distressing topics. Reduces child’s anxiety, thereby enhancing cognitive performance, i.e., the child is more attentive and better able to access their memory. It encourages more spontaneity and detail in the child’s responses.

29. Rapport Building Techniques 1) Smile 2) Compliment the child. (“Boy, that sure is a pretty pink dress you have on today.”) 3)Inquire in a friendly manner about something the child enjoys (“What do you like to do for fun? Tell me all about that”)

30. Rapport Building Techniques 4) Show concern about the child’s comfort “It’s real important to me that you are as comfortable as you can be while we are together today. So be sure to let me know if you need to go to the bathroom or to get a drink, or if I can do anything to make you more comfortable, okay?” “You look like you might like to take a little break. Would you like to color for a little while?”

31. Rapport Building Techniques 5) Show an interest in things the child is interested in, even if it is not “forensically relevant.” 6) Consider giving the child permission to decline answering questions that are too difficult or upsetting to answer at the time. 7) Avoid authoritarian and coercive behaviors.

32. Some people clearly go too far in trying to build rapport with kids!

33. #4 RELY ON OPEN-ENDED QUESTIONS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE • Open-ended questions are not leading • Children’s responses to open-ended questions are generally far more consistent and accurate than their responses to option-posing and leading questions • Examples of open-ended questions: • Tell me why you came to talk to me today • Tell me all about (something the child mentioned) • Tell me more about (something the child mentioned) • What happened right before/right after (something the child mentioned)

34. Even children as young as 4 years old can provide substantial information in response to open-ended questions • (Using the NICHD interview protocol), almost half of the information provided by 4- to 6-year-olds was in response to open-ended questioning (Lamb et al., 2003) • Although young children provide less information in response to open-ended questioning than older children do, the information they provide is no less accurate

35. Forensic Interviewers tend to rely too much on Option-posing questions and begin using them PREMATURELY • Option posing questions accounted for 85% of the inconsistencies in children’s statements • Although option-posing questions are sometimes necessary, they should not be used until open-ended questions are no longer eliciting information

36. Practice SessionOption-posing (yes/no) questionsvs. Open-ended Questions“Tell me all about . . .”“Tell me more about . . .”“What happened right before …”“What happened right after…”

37. Which type of questioning (option-posing or open-ended)… • Elicited more information? • Was easier for the interviewer? • Was less frustrating for the person being interviewed? • Elicits more accurate information?

38. Strategy for Using Open-ended Questions • Begin with open-ended questions • Continue with open-ended questions until the child is no longer providing information • And, as soon as the child provides ‘new’ information, return to open-ended questions

39. Substituting Open-ended Questions for Option-Posing Question {Assume that the child previously told the interviewer that Roger touched her pee-pee—but she has never alleged that Roger did anything else to her} You told me that Roger touched your pee-pee. Tell me all about that. Tell me more about that. What happened right before/right after Robert touched your pee-pee? KEEP REPEATING OPEN-ENDED QUESTIONS until the child no longer provides information RETURN TO OPEN-ENDED QUESTIONS as soon as child provides new information

40. #5 USE THE “PRACTICE NARRATIVE”

41. The “Practice Narrative”Using Open-ended Questions to Elicit More Spontaneous and Detailed AccountsBefore Inquiring about Abuse In typical conversations with adults, young children provide minimal detail When sexually abused children were first asked open-ended questions about neutral/pleasant topics early in the forensic interview (before abuse-related questioning), they later provided 2½ timesas much detail about their abuse!

42. The Practice Narrative “Tell me all about . . . What you like to do for fun Your birthday party (a recent holiday, etc) Follow up with: “Tell me more about . . . ”“What happened right after . . . ?”

43. CHILDREN TYPICALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE GOALS OF THE INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW The investigative interview is quite UNLIKE children’s normal ways of responding to adults. When questioned by adults, children normally: “Guess” responses to questions Go along with adults and avoid correcting adults

44. #6 DISCOURAGE GUESSING Explain that, if you ask a question and the child does not know the answer, DON’T GUESS. “If I ask you a question and you don’t know the answer, please don’t guess! Just say “I don’t know.” Role-play and provide praise and corrective feedback. More effective with school-aged kids

45. Discouraging Guessing If I ask you a question and you don’t know the answer, just say, “I don’t know.” Okay? So if I asked you, “Do I have a dog” what would you say? “I don’t know.” Right. You don’t know. If child guesses, provide corrective feedback and role-play further. Some kids will continue to guess.

46. #7 TEACH CHILDREN TO CORRECT YOUR MISTAKES WHEN CHILDREN SHOW THE ABILITY TO DISAGREE WITH AND CORRECT THE INTERVIEWER, THIS CAN DESTROY THE “LEADING INTERVIEW DEFENSE!”

47. Encouraging kids to correct your mistakes Deliberately make errors unrelated to the suspected abuse and encourage child to correct you. More effective for school-aged kids Risky for preschoolers

48. Teaching kids to correct your mistakes If I get mixed up and make a mistake, I want you to correct me. I need you to help me get it right So, if I said that your name is (incorrect name), what would you say? That’s right. So if I make a mistake, please tell me and help me get it right, okay?

49. Children Are More Likely To Correct Your Mistakes If You Appear To Be Uninformed About The Facts Convey a lack of knowledge about the facts of the case “I wasn’t there so I need you to tell me all about that.” Use the “Colombo” approach “I’m mixed up.”

50. CHILDREN’S DESIRE TO “PLEASE” THE INTERVIEWER CAN BE A LIABILITY OR AN ASSET When children know what the interviewer wants from them (e.g., the “ground rules”), their desire to please becomes an asset.