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Sunday 9 th Jan 2011 Dreaming dreams, and looking at the things with new eyes. As Anglicans and Methodists together, the members of St Martin’s shared church joined for the Covenant Service, a shared lunch, and an afternoon of discussion.

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sunday 9 th jan 2011 dreaming dreams and looking at the things with new eyes
Sunday 9th Jan 2011Dreaming dreams, and looking at the things with new eyes.

As Anglicans and Methodists together, the members of St Martin’s shared church joined for the Covenant Service, a shared lunch, and an afternoon of discussion.

The record of that discussion, around 4 themes, follows in this presentation. Being a record of discussion, this document represents the views and opinions of individuals present. It does not reflect the considered opinions and views of the church as a whole, or of the church leadership. However there is much here on which to build.

We hope that you will be inspired, encouraged, and motivated by the content you read here. Do get involved, do add your suggestions... Do pray for the future of St. Martins that together we would seek God’s will and reflect His glory in all we do.

Clair

director@dorkingchristiancentre.org.uk

(note taker for the day) Any additions / comment / corrections gratefully received....

feedback pet hates
Feedback: Pet Hates
  • Communications
  • Clear lines of communications needed. So we know who to talk to about what.
  • Not enough people helping to keep the church clean and tidy.
  • People who take your hand in the peace, but don’t look at you, or who are already looking for their next handshake.
  • The lack of courtesy of people who chat during the anthem.
  • Sharing
  • 9.30 overrunning so interferes with Methodists coming in (from an Anglican!)

The Building

The bogey green carpet

The heating in the Lady Chapel

Can’t find the entrance: need signs from High Street and Car Park.

The ‘Gates’ give a feeling of ‘keep out’

Entrance needs a total revamp.

Local visitors assume that others should pay for upkeep of the church... The ‘others’ = us!’

Choir too far away – we miss the wonderful singing!

feedback pet hates1
Feedback: Pet Hates
  • Hymns:
  • Old Hymns in a language which is hard for newcomers and youngsters to understand.
  • Not enough familiar Hymn tunes
  • Hymns and Tunes you cannot sing to properly.
  • Not enough Carols that are well know at Christmas when we have so many visitors.
  • No Boards displaying Hymn s in the Lady Chapel.
  • As a regular I’d like one hymn I at least know a bit!
  • Unknown tunes which are difficult to pick up.
  • Listening to anthems which I can’t follow the words so I can’t ‘join in’ (silently!) in the worship aspect.
  • Other points..
  • Too few people doing too much work.
  • Richard leaving
  • Holy Communion EVERY week
  • People offer to read / sidesman not used.
  • People not sitting nearer the front.
  • Not using the pulpit for sermons.
  • I used to enjoy morning prayer very much. I find communion too often takes place.
feedback best bits
Feedback: Best Bits
  • Pastoral
  • We care for everyone. People who are not ‘religious’ find solace with us.
  • Wonderful support in times of trouble and sadness.
  • Excellent gatherings like today – and especially on the occasions when we have beautiful food – thank you
  • Fellowship
  • Warmth & love amongst the members.
  • Warm welcome on arrival at Church.
  • Pastoral ... Cont/
  • Church fellowship – housegroups, lunches, events.
  • Feels like a village church – so involved in the community.
  • Supportive nature of St. Martin’s people.
  • Pastoral Care is brilliant.
  • Friendliness and outreach of the Christian Centre is unique and serves a much needed purpose in the Town.
feedback best bits1

Housegroups

  • Housegroups – fellowship and fun.
  • The beginnings of housegroups.
  • Homegroup helps to get to know people.
  • Other points..
  • Lights in the Lady Chapel.
Feedback: Best Bits

Services

The services are traditional

I Love the music – Martin’s playing is so glorious.

I love the choir

An outstanding Choir

I like it when Sunday club comes in.

Music

Children Orientated servies.

patterns of the services
Patterns of the Services...

Not always had this pattern of service. Holy Communion can put some people off coming to Church – do not have to be every week.

Take the labels of the services: 9.30 Holy Communion 11.00 Morning Worship.

Communion Services are very flexible.

Could swap to one communions a month

Communion once a quarter would be a very special and important service.

Communion is what Sunday Service should be.

Should we be about spiritual boost on Sunday or mission in Dorking? – That determines how the service should be.

Permission to use liturgy can be a problem.

Communion should be after Matins

Change the times

A robed choir not every service

Include some tradition in the all together services to get children used to it.

Less formality in the Lady Chapel, so it can be explained as communion is taken.

Attend each others service (voluntary).

our shared life together
Our shared life together...

In Fellowship we work well together. ... Not so often in worship... Some fellowship should therefore involve more worship – eg Passover meal, harvest support with some worship.

Should make more effort to go to each others’ services.

Should be more ‘pulpit swaps’

The role and responsibility of the ecumenical minister should be permanent.

Social Responsibility and outreach – shared committee to research how the church can help with problems in the town.

Outreach:

‘at x church they have postcards which they give out everytime someone helps’ eg... A gift from St. Martins.’

Money:

A joint account makes sharing easier now.

growing our church serving our communities what steps of faith are we prepared to take next

Growing our church – serving our communities. What steps of faith are we prepared to take next?

what do you understand church growth to be about
What do you understand Church Growth to be about?

Forms of worship – opportunity to bring others in eg crib service.

What do ‘outsiders’ what? Difficult to find out

1:1 discussion to raise awareness of what church can provide.

Lack of flexibility of building – but unambitious to change it.

Need to grow in confidence – to bring people in.

Must not dwell on history.

can you identify growth areas at st martin s at the moment what is making them successful
Can you identify growth areas at St. Martin’s at the moment, what is making them successful?

Children and Youth 15 Sunday Club 40 Youth.

Home Groups 5+ 20 max

Growing in love.

Commitment: Small numbers

Mutual acceptance

Knowledge of the bible – lay people more involved.

Faith & Spirituality – more involvement.

  • New Initiatives:
  • Positive unpaid clergy & ministry
  • Interregnum is good.
  • PAs and pastoral visist
  • Housegroups
  • Developments in the Centre
  • Quiet Garden
  • Messy Church
  • Youth Group.
can you identify growth areas at st martin s at the moment what is making them successful 2
Can you identify growth areas at St. Martin’s at the moment, what is making them successful? #2

Christian Centre – brings a lots of income (!ed) and is at the heart of St. Martin’s as many use the Christian Centre as a place to find help.

Help from the younger generation to take some workload but also grow the church

.

where are we shrinking and why
Where are we shrinking and why?

Room from more loving and less personal criticism.

We’re shrinking because the church is all about the old times.

Course work stops many young people going to church as its one the two days they get to catch up and I think the fact that they are put under a lot of pressure at school many people just need those two days; also they use Sundays to sleep because of the early morning the next day, and many people just don’t believe any more.

Media effects – gives christianity negative

Maybe not shrinking, but not growing.

who is on the fringe of our church and how can we serve them
Who is on the fringe of our church and how can we serve them?

Schools

Baptism Parties

Funerals

Messy Church

Youth Groups

Uniformed Organisations

Visitors to the Christian Centre

Volunteers in the Christian Centre.

How can we serve them? Being a neighbour.

who do we identify as our communities and what do we identify as their needs
Who do we identify as ‘our communities’ and what do we identify as their needs?

Community – Town Church, Civic, Local Council Meetings.

Wandering Church yard Community

Homeless & Travellers

Concerts

Schools

Difference in geography of both churches affects pastoral needs.

Can use both Methodist and Anglican practices in supporting our networks.

Friday Market

St. Martin’s Shopping Centre

Working Community of Dorking.

what can we do to play our part in meeting those needs
What can we do to play our part in meeting those needs?

Identify community needs by looking at ourselves and our own needs.

how can we grow st martin s without overloading and exhausting already hardworking members
How can we grow St. Martin’s without overloading and exhausting already hardworking members?

A really good – well known hymn to end with.

More people willing to share the workload

Publicity about services in schools

Use our affiliations to uniformed groups more get them involved.

Building individual / group relationships

The current culture doesn’t encourage church – going.

Something in the porch (Christian Centre) to advertise special services.

Prioritise.

Ministry of us all – shared responsibility

Confidence – can not rely on overworked

Need to prioritise (and agree on) important things to match resources.

Need for support /mentoring / training / practice with fear of criticism.

A visitors Book

‘Presence in the Church for people to talk to... The personal touch.

Engage with schools.

Communication between congregations.

how are ministers different from the rest of us
How are Ministers different from the rest of us?

We all have a calling – priesthood of all believers.

Ordained have enabling and educational ministry.

They should have deeper theological training to lead and guide.

Ministers are called upon in times of crisis.

Time to devote themselves to the church.

what sort of person makes a good minister
What sort of person makes a good minister?

Strong leader who can hold things together.

Strong preacher and charismatic personality can attract new members.

Is there really an advantage in ‘ a young family man with children’. .. Is there any evidence that they will attract more youngsters.

Plan for the congregation you wish you had!

slide21
When you think about St. Martin’s church, the Christian Centre... What should the make up of our leadership team be and why?

A team contains different personalities, different strengths,.

They need to be able to communicate and be mutually supportive.

They need a leader for each congregation, plus a shared management team (church).

More sharing in the management in the sharing of the management of the church and DCC.

If we reshape our patterns of worship, will we need to reshape our leadership team?

Centre leader with Pastoral responsibilities for the Centre. ... Could be a minister who sees Centre as part of their responsibility.

slide24

What are the priorities you see for approaches for fundraising to enhance the building (including the crypt) for use in the 21st Century and beyond?

People feel they don’t know the crypt / the building.

Importance of the Lady Chapel? What about growing congregation fitting in?

Heating in the Church.

Glass doors Narthex / Lobby Area

Ways to engage Visitors.

Co-ordinate the display material – heritage / events.

Something for children

Improvements that need space... Cleaning, flowers, - storage space.

Coffee bar (in the church).

West doors / steps and ramps –

Chairs in some parts.. Eg side aisles.

Signs on high street & car park.

St. Martin’s sign ‘open on Sundays’.

Update & relocate history book

Main doors.

slide25

What more can we to involve more of our regular members and wider community to take a personal stake in keeping up the church’s condition and appearance?

Friends of St Martin’s working group, ‘doing things’ rather than just collecting money.

Visitors Book

More visible collecting box for funds.

Committee to feed ‘friends’ continually with our needs.

What can be done to make us more professional on fundraising / getting people involved – eg friends of capel church.

Skills audit of all members: eg gardening / babysitting / fundraising for the church / cleaning.

‘Pew Leaders’ split cleaning down into chunks... People?

Need to formalise the jobs... ? Volunteer contracts?

Younger people: sweeping up leaves etc.

Farmers market outside in the church yard.

slide26

What more can we to involve more of our regular members and wider community to take a personal stake in keeping up the church’s condition and appearance? (cont..)

Teams with rotating responsibilities and leader for quarterly cleaning.

Schools project ‘tidying our church’.,

Brownies already tidy up.

Tidy up checklist included in contract (it is! Ed).

School encourage wider involvement in ‘doing’.

Sponsorship of.... ‘with credit in magazine. ‘

slide27

What are the main priorities you see in making The Christian Centre better suited to the many different users who come through its doors every week?

.

Best thing at the Christian Centre is the meals... Keep that!

Lights not to be on at night

Include preparation time in booking

Ability to lock (if unlocked)

Improve entrance (including door – is too heavy).

Moveable display space for groups.