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And if We D id it All Again…?. G. Lehmann Miotto. [email protected]: What did I learn?. We’ve been extremely successful at solving the same problems in 4++ different ways For data-flow architectures one may still argue that differences were driven by Different experiment requirements

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And if we d id it all again

And if We Did it All Again…?

G. Lehmann Miotto

Daq@lhc what did i learn
[email protected]: What did I learn?

  • We’ve been extremely successful at solving the same problems in 4++ different ways

  • For data-flow architectures one may still argue that differences were driven by

    • Different experiment requirements

    • Different risk assessment/perception of experts

  • For online software (control, configuration, monitoring) it is really difficult to find a technical explanation

    • Different people naturally chose different options

[email protected] Workshop

Today s online systems
Today’s Online Systems

  • 4 well performing systems

  • still improving/evolving

  • Evolving technologies

    • Keep up

    • Explore and track

    • Profit

  • Increase automation & usability

  • Note that effort is needed also to KEEP the present perfection level!

[email protected] Workshop

How did we get here
How Did We Get Here?

  • A challenging set of problems

  • The lack of early existing solutions caused research work to start independently, in parallel (even within experiments)

  • Initially plenty of human resources (read eager experts) organized in separate communities

    • R&D is what we love!

    • No expert would willingly give up his solution

  • Forcing convergence seemed counterproductive

[email protected] Workshop

Dcs took a different path
DCS Took a Different Path

  • Long initial discussions to agree on a (third party) solution

    • Customized to experiments’ needs

    • Integrated with in-house developed components

  • Coordinated outside individual experiments (JCOP)

  • We have working detector control systems for all experiments=> also this seems a valid approach

[email protected] Workshop

What if we did it all again today
What if We Did It All Again Today?

  • Still a challenging set of problems

  • R&D is still what we love

  • We are organized in separate communities

  • Except if there was a strong managerial decision…

[email protected] Workshop


  • We should keep in mind that we are working on an experiment lifetime of 20 – 30 more years

    • We are not even half way through

    • With how many (4 * re-implementations) should we count?

  • Will we maintain a similar level of resources in the long term?

    • Investment from institutes

    • Interest of new people

  • Therefore, it is not completely academic to ask ourselves…

[email protected] Workshop

Where do we go f rom here
Where Do We Go from Here?

  • Possible options:

    • Continue as today

    • Pick up the best from each system / service/ component and “merge” into a common solution

    • Evaluate a new, common approach

[email protected] Workshop

A continue as today
a) Continue as Today

  • After all…. nobody would expect religions to merge after an ecumenical gathering

  • It may be simplest to continue improving our own systems

  • Now that we know better what the other experiments are doing

    • We may ask for expert opinions before embarking onto the next software evolution

    • We may decide to pick up some of the ideas that were presented for other experiments and implement them in our system

    • We may choose to use common technologies in specific areas

    • We may even launch some common projects at the periphery of our systems

[email protected] Workshop

B select merge
b) Select & Merge

  • May seem a viable approach, but…

  • We’d face the problem of fitting a square peg into a round hole…

  • A patched solution to nobody’s satisfaction

[email protected] Workshop

C go for a common approach
c) Go for a Common Approach

  • A major effort in social engineering/team building

  • If we want to have a chance of success

    • Take time to look at how other environments have tackled the problem

      • Computer centers

      • Distributed/networked control systems

    • Don’t exclude a priori to go the SCADA/OPC UA way

  • At the very least, agree on and choose a common middleware

    • The only way to keep the door open to “merging” later on

[email protected] Workshop


  • So far we have been very successful with our independent solutions

  • The long experiment lifetime demands that we ask ourselves how to proceed

  • We will re-design & re-implement our systems a few more times

  • This workshop has offered the possibility to establish communication channels

  • Up to us to decide to what extent it’s better to work independently or together

[email protected] Workshop

A big thanks

A Big Thanks

To Clara, Vasco, Luciano for the preparatory workshop discussions and to ALL of you for this nice ecumenical workshop!