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HTASC - Report to HEP-CCC. David Kelsey, RAL d.p.kelsey@ 9 April 1999 ( HTASC #11 4th/5th March 1999, CERN. Agenda Routine business including ‘Roundtable’ update Report from HEPNT group Report from Security group Y2k problem

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Htasc report to hep ccc

HTASC - Report to HEP-CCC

David Kelsey, RALd.p.kelsey@ April 1999


D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

Htasc 11 4th 5th march 1999 cern
HTASC #11 4th/5th March 1999, CERN


  • Routine business

    • including ‘Roundtable’ update

  • Report from HEPNT group

  • Report from Security group

  • Y2k problem

  • Software licensing

D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

Htasc membership
HTASC Membership

  • Two new members

    • Ola Borrebaek (Norway)

    • Nicanor Colino (Spain)

  • Still no participation from Austria, Finland, Greece, Portugal and Sweden

  • HTASC #11

    • 15 members in attendance

D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

Roundtable update
Roundtable update

  • Essentially unanimous agreement

    • European network (TEN-155) is good

    • poor/unusable access to USA

  • Some concern (privacy implications) about CERN’s monitoring of network traffic

  • Network charging (CH by volume, HU by bandwidth, UK/transatlantic by volume)

  • Increasing activity in Video Conferencing

  • Linux growing fast

    • worries about support and user-managed systems

D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report


Open Meeting: 2-4 Dec 98 (CERN)


  • successful first meeting

    • 67 participants from 11 countries (incl. USA and Canada)

  • important themes

    • Installation, configuration and management

    • Windows 2000 (NT V5)

    • Security

    • UNIX/NT integration

    • File serving/sharing

    • HEP applications on NT

  • D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Hepnt 2
    HEPNT (2)

    28/29 Jan 99: closed meeting (CERN)

    • WAN file sharing

      • INFN proposal for WAN NT domain

      • Identified need for tests of RAS/PPTP over Internet

      • AFS/NT is the interim solution

      • WWW is likely to be the future

    • Windows 2000 (NT5)

      • several test domains exist

      • more are coming (e.g. a CERN WG)

      • useful to collaborate on migration to Windows 2000

    • Aim to complete web pages by June 99

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Hepnt 3
    HEPNT (3)

    • Future plans

      • HEPiX (14-16 April 99 at RAL)

        • includes various NT talks

      • 20/21 May 99 closed HEPNT (DESY-Zeuthen)

        • finalise web pages

        • review mandate (report back to HTASC/HEPCCC)

        • plans for Windows 2000

      • joint HEPiX/HEPNT meeting (USA, Autumn 99)

        • 2nd Open HEPNT meeting (1st in USA)

      • Windows 2000 migration group?

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Security group
    Security Group

    • New group, created at last HEP-CCC

    • See next 7 slides from Tobias Haas (chairman)

    • report delayed until June 99 HTASC meeting

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report


    Draft Mandate of HTASC Computer/Network Security Subgroup


    Advise HTASC/HEPCCC on Computer and Network Security needs and to suggest policies to meet those needs for HEP laboratories and institutes by

    • defining computer/network security guidelines for HEP institutions,

    • estimating the resources needed to implement such guidelines,

    • suggesting means of communication between the institutions in case of security incidents.

    HTASC security, Tobias Haas

    Membership updated

    • A. Flavell (UK)

    • J. Gamble (CERN)

    • T. Haas (Germany/Chair)

    • J. Kadlecsik (Hungary)

    • W. Niepraschk (Germany/DESY)

      to be confirmed...

    • R. Cowles (SLAC)?

    • B. Perrot (LAL, Orsay)?

    • E. Wassenar (NIKHEF)?

    HTASC security, Tobias Haas


    • Report to March HEPCCC.

    • Delayed by Chairman’s fault.

    • Plan now:

      • get going during this meeting

      • circulate draft recommendation soon after

      • finalize asap.

    HTASC security, Tobias Haas

    Basic ideas
    Basic Ideas

    • General Awareness

    • Scope of Security

    • Summarize activities in various labs/universities

    • Extract common trends/recommendations

    HTASC security, Tobias Haas

    Organizational issues
    Organizational Issues

    • Management Support

      • responsibilities

        • coordination team

        • expert team

      • policy

      • personnel issues

    • National Specialties

    • National/International Support

    HTASC security, Tobias Haas

    Technical issues
    Technical Issues

    • Firewalls

    • Monitoring

    • Different Operating Systems

    • Examples for general good practice

      • passwords

      • file protections

    • Hot Topics

    HTASC security, Tobias Haas

    Emergency procedures
    Emergency Procedures

    • WWW

      • When?

      • Who?

      • What?

    HTASC security, Tobias Haas

    Y2k problem
    Y2k problem

    • brief discussion at HTASC #10 and last HEPCCC

    • Lab infrastructure is assumed to be under control - if not, already too late!

    • HTASC is concerned with the experimental collaborations

    • Wolfgang Tejessey (Y2k coordinator for CERN/EP) told us about CERN’s Y2k work

    • See Wolfgang’s slides (below)

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Y2k problem 2
    Y2k problem(2)

    • HTASC was impressed by the work under way at CERN

    • There seems to be nothing similar at DESY

      • HERA will run over the 1999/2000 rollover!

    • Many experiments have done a lot of work

    • But… no room for complacency

    • Should continue to raise awareness (aim for 100%)

      • particularly at DESY?

    • Requiring documentation (e.g. web) makes collaborations consider the problem

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Y2k problem 3
    Y2k problem(3)

    HTASC recommends…

    HEP-CCC should continue to remind HEP experiments:

    • It is their duty to analyse and fix Y2k problems.

    • They should document their strategy and decisions. Highest priority to be given to matters of ‘safety’ and mission-critical items.

    • should include detailed 99/00 roll-over plans (shutdown, startup, availability of experts etc.)

    • Contingency plans should be made for mission-critical items

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Software licensing
    Software licensing

    HTASC discussion...

    • HEP has decided to use more commercial software.

    • Computer hardware is getting cheaper.

    • BUT, commercial software costs are high!

    • Many, particularly poorer institutes, find that the costs are too large, both for initial licenses and ongoing maintenance, when not centrally funded

    • It used to be relatively easy to buy expensive hardware, but it is much more difficult to obtain funding for software!

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Software licensing 2
    Software licensing (2)

    Some examples (figures are only illustrative!):

    • NIKHEF PC’s recently installed at FNAL (D0)

      • 3K NLG/PC (2K CHF/PC) for software package

      • includes 500 CHF for the KAI compiler

    • Objectivity

      • $150k for 100 licenses (10% development)

      • $2.5k/user for a full development license (or 10KDM)

    • LSF (batch)

      • recently become more expensive

      • $150/cpu (or 600 DM/cpu)

      • clients cost ~20% of server license

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Software licensing 3
    Software licensing (3)

    Consequences of these high costs...

    • Objectivity

      • DESY (Hera) would like to use LHC++/Objectivity

      • investigating use of ROOT and JAS instead

    • Batch systems

      • CERN (and other places) have chosen LSF to replace NQS

      • but high cost has resulted in Italy using Condor and IN2P3 developing something on top of NQS

    • This causes problems for University groups having to support different experiments using different s/w

    • The (hidden) costs of supporting multiple packages should be included in any cost/benefit analysis

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Software licensing 4
    Software licensing (4)

    • Discussion on GEANT4

      • Institutes & experiments have signed MOU (Jan99)

      • Those not signing will receive worse support and lower priority for the development of specific needs

      • Some in HTASC were not happy about this

      • There was also a worry that GEANT4 may require some components of LHC++, which may not be available

    • To summarise (last three slides)

      • there is a great danger of splitting the community

        • e.g. LHC++ for CERN experiments, but not for others

      • there is room for coordination

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Software licensing 5
    Software licensing (5)

    HTASC recommends...

    • HEP should strive to find the funds for chosen commercial software. A split between physicists having and not having access to the software must be avoided.

    • All efforts should be made to make these standard packages affordable to everyone, including small institutes (HEP-wide deals, central funding etc.).

    • The use of non-standard commercial software in HEP-developed packages should be discouraged.

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report

    Future htasc meetings
    Future HTASC meetings

    • 10/11 June, 1999 (NIKHEF)

      • Report from the Security group

      • Video conferencing

    • 7/8 October, 1999 (CERN)

      • experience of ‘OO’ technology (e.g. BaBar) and requirements for training

      • Networking issues, e.g. differentiated services

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report


    • HTASC invites HEP-CCC to take note of recommendations

      • on Y2K

      • on Software licensing

    D.P.Kelsey, HTASC report