RFC4441rev status as of IETF 86

1. RFC4441rev statusas of IETF 86 Spencer Dawkins spencer@wonderhamster.org

2. Background • RFC 4441 describes IEEE 802-IETF relationship ... • ... As of about 2004 • A lot of water under the bridge since then • IEEE 802 now doing their own MIB work • Canonical list of coordination topics grown from 5 to about 20 • More coordination topics expected • IEEE 802/IETF/IAB leadership meeting in July 2012 • Trained each body about the other • Reviewed a bunch of coordination topics • Agreed to revise RFC 4441 (“RFC4441rev”) • Assembled drafting team from both SDOs • Trying to cross the finish line now IAB Liaison Oversight Program

3. The High-order Bit • The target audience for this document: • IEEE 802 and IETF participants ... • ... who are working or proposing new work ... • ...in one of these organizations ... • ... on topics that may overlap or conflict ... • ... with work in the other organization, • ... who may not be familiar with the other organization, • ... who need some understanding of the other organization, • ... but who may never attend a meeting in the other organization • The document is not binding on either IETF or IEEE 802 • It does not override existing processes in either organization • This needs to be blindingly obvious to every reader IAB Liaison Oversight Program

4. Where we are now • IAB Last Call on draft -03 ended Friday before IETF • Helpful comments from Bernard, Dave, Adrian and Russ • Also received early feedback from IEEE 802.11 • Most comments are straightforward • Magic incantation to see the comments is http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/iab/trac/query?status=assigned&status=closed&status=new&status=reopened&component=draft-iab-rfc4441rev&order=priority • Some aren't ... • So, let’s talk! IAB Liaison Oversight Program

5. Descriptive text • This is the biggest issue we’re dealing with • -03 includes descriptive text about the way IETF works • This isn’t IEEE 802-specific (comparisons are, of course) • There’s a real tension between • IETF comments: “point to BCPs and stop typing” • IEEE comments: “please tell us MORE” • IETF concern is about casual text • Sample: "working group chairs manage working groups“ • Sure, we can do a clean-up pass, checking carefully • Meta-IETF concern about possible confusion • Of ANY non-BCP text that can be misaligned with BCP text IAB Liaison Oversight Program

6. Proposed solutions • Drafting team still wants to say SOMETHING • Tao of IETF is general guidance for new IETF participants • Not designed for IEEE 802 people who need to liaise with IETF • Major surgery • Replace generic IETF description with pointers to BCPs • Move “compare and contrast” to clearly labeled appendix • IEEE 802 sections also have descriptive text • Information spread over multiple documents • Minor surgery • Seriously careful review looking for what’s imprecise • Leave “compare and contrast” in the body of the text • Compared to this issue, all the others are easy IAB Liaison Oversight Program

7. Who is responsible for notifications? • Proposal: • We have liaison relationships for most existing work • Each group initiating work will notify other SDO • Use New-work as the notification path • Neither SDO needs to monitor other’s WG mailing lists, etc. • Other SDO is responsible for identifying affected groups • Has the expertise to navigate own organization • If all else fails, anybody can talk to anybody, as a “heads-up” • New-Work mailing list is only the beginning • IEEE 802/IETF coordination calls become really important IAB Liaison Oversight Program

8. Mismatched levels of documentation • “What's the IEEE/IETF equivalent?“ asked many times • IEEE 802 and IETF evolved separately for decades • example: IETF has web page of liaison relationships • IEEE didn’t have an equivalent page • Many are easy to fix • IEEE 802 added equivalent liaison relationships page this week • Many not want perfect symmetry • How long do we want to wait for more fixes? IAB Liaison Oversight Program

9. Intended path forward • Resolve the comments received to date • Wasn’t able to resolve them all prior to this meeting – sorry! • IAB issues Call for Comment to community • May also receive additional IEEE 802-side comments • Resolve comments received during this step • Is IEEE 802 planning to ballot this? • Or IEEE 802 working groups just provide comments? • Could IEEE 802 provide a note about their agreement? • Publish as IAB stream RFC • Not planning to publish this in an IEEE 802 equivalent form • IEEE 802 will add to Chairs Guidelines • We’re shooting to be finished by June. 2013. IAB Liaison Oversight Program

10. Q&A and Discussion