Plato’s Republic

1. Plato’s Republic Books 1 and 2

2. Overview • Conventional Views of Justice • Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Glaucon’s Question

3. Ancient Greece

4. Review & Recap last week • Setting, Characters, Background • Note how the dialogue begins • Keep in mind talk on virtue -- can’t persuade if don’t listen • Force triumphs over logic/persuasion

5. I. Conventional Views of Justice • In Book 1, the dialogue is driven by: • a. Cephalus -- old/respect • b. Polemarchus -- warrior • c. Thrasymachus -- rhetorician • d. Socrates

6. I. Conventional Views of Justice: Cephalus • Justice is giving everyone his due (331c)

7. I. Conventional Views of Justice: Cephalus A. Socrates’ challenge: How to know what is owed? (331c-d) B. Can’t take bearing of justice from the law (exit Cephalus, and with it ancestral wisdom) C. Note frustration of dealing with Socrates (early enthusiasm wanes rapidly, Cephalus goes back to sacrifice).

8. I. Conventional Views of Justice: Cephalus Exit Cephalus…

9. I. Conventional Views of Justice:Polemarchus • Justice means doing good for friends and harm to enemies (332a)

10. I. Conventional Views of Justice:Polemarchus A. How to know friends? B. Recall social context -- the moral relation at this time is person with the city, with the city primary C. Socrates challenge: How do we know our real friends from real enemies?

11. I. Conventional Views of Justice: Polemarchus • To do so, means need to know first what’s good for you • Can city decide that for you? • No -- need further standard, some objective standard against which can judge (i.e., know what is truly good),

12. I. Conventional Views of Justice: Polemarchus • Justice can’t just be doing good things for city • Socrates introduces here a relation between justice and knowledge (i.e., we need to know this standard) and who’s special concern is knowledge? philosopher -- (thus tie to defense of Socrates and of philosophy

13. I. Conventional Views of Justice: Polemarchus • Draws an analogy between justice and art/craft (e.g., art of medicine) • Physician applies theoretical general knowledge to particular, practical problem (i.e., general knowledge of biology/medicine allows physician to cure your particular illness)

14. I. Conventional Views of Justice: Polemarchus • Art involves applying general knowledge • Justice, as an art, demands that we have some general knowledge; so it’s more than simply helping friends and harming enemies. Enter Thrasymachus (335b)

15. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Review Thrasymachus: • Traveling teacher who charges pupils • Rhetoric: speaking persuasively (without regard for truth of what is said). • Keep in mind the Apology (this will be the style of argument used against Socrates in condemning him to death).

16. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Justice is whatever is to the advantage of the stronger (338c)

17. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Laws vary from city to city, ruling class decides laws, laws define the just • Common thread of all is that powerful make the laws to their own advantage • Note the coherence, and validity of the definition, from political point of view

18. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • C. Socrates’ First Response • What about mistakes in ruling class? (339b-c))

19. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Thrasymachus counters • he claims to teach the art of ruling, so rulers in precise sense don’t make mistakes (340d)) • where “art” here means making the weaker argument appear the stronger • ruler in precise sense is one who can invoke justice to make people believe he’s ruling for them and not for himself

20. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Thrasymachus agrees knowledge is basis of goodness, but if so, best people are the tyrants who manage to place themselves in such a position as to set the rules • People who really know are the ones who use justice as a smokescreen to secure personal desires • Justice then, is matter of appearance

21. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Socrates agrees that practitioner of justice is like an artist, but ... • Point of art is to improve thing over which art practices/presides • e.g., doctors can both heal and kill with their knowledge • Thrasymachus responds with shepherd analogy (342b))

22. II. Thracymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Socrates draws distinction between money art and shepherding art

23. II. Thrasymachus: Advantage of the Stronger • Socrates is able to show that Thrasymachus seeks justice on same terms and questions whether this is compatible (that is, seeking theory/philosophy of justice and earning bucks) • Is the knower's art and the moneymaker’s art compatible? • Thrasymachus blushes, throws in the towel (350d)

24. III. Glaucon’s Question • Biographical Background Recap • Thinks he’s gifted, lots of potential, potentially “tyrannical” man • B. Question (Book II) • Wants to know: if this is the only life he has, he doesn’t want to waste it, so ... • Why should he be just?

25. III. Glaucon’s Question • Socrates needs to show that being just is good in and of itself. • Needs to show good to be authentically just, rather than just appearing to be just.