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Car Buying Seminar Tom Lindstrom [email protected] China Outreach Ministries Outline Understanding our assumptions Understanding Cars Dealing with People Dealing with Details Inspecting the Car Recommendations Understanding Our Assumptions T/F Test What REALLY Matters?

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Car buying seminar l.jpg

Car Buying Seminar

Tom Lindstrom [email protected]

China Outreach Ministries

Outline l.jpg

  • Understanding our assumptions

  • Understanding Cars

  • Dealing with People

  • Dealing with Details

  • Inspecting the Car

  • Recommendations

Understanding our assumptions l.jpg

Understanding Our Assumptions

T/F Test

What REALLY Matters?

True false test l.jpg

  • 1. Japanese Cars are the cheapest to drive

  • 2. The more I spend purchasing a car, the more dependable it will be

  • 3. Finding a reputable dealer is the most important step

  • 4. Getting a car is going to relieve a lot of anxiety about living in the US

  • 5. Cars with “Prior Salvage” stamped on the title should always be avoided

  • 6. New tires on a car shows it has been cared for

Rank the following in order of importance l.jpg



Cost of Maintenance

Gas Mileage

Ability to impress my friends

Cheapest price


Make of car (ie Toyota)

Everything MUST work all the time

Easy to park, learn to drive, etc.

Lower anxiety about vandalism, theft, etc.

Rank the following in order of importance:

What really matters l.jpg

Dependable transportation that doesn’t interfere with your studies

Lower anxiety regarding safety & damage to your car while you learn to drive

What REALLY matters?

Understanding cars l.jpg
Understanding Cars studies

  • When cheaper means more expensive and saving money means spending money!

  • Sweeping Generalizations

  • Understanding Wear Cycles

  • Choosing a car based on thorough research

  • Tools for determining the value of a specific car

Different cars for different people l.jpg
Different Cars for Different People studies

  • For most people, cars are pragmatic…just transportation

Slide10 l.jpg

  • This discussion will focus on practical cars even personal identity!

  • My recommendations will be for cars that are more simple in design

  • If you prefer a fancier car, the research methods shown in this presentation will also help you find such a car!

Sweeping generalizations l.jpg

Japanese even personal identity! cars RUST but are typically more dependable. Repairs sometimes expensive.

European cars are well designed but expensive to repair, more complicated. Complicated electrical systems are their death knoll. Motors and bodies last forever.

American cars rust, are not as well designed, but parts and repairs are readily available. These cars are usually more practical in design, and there are several that stand out as very reliable.

Sweeping Generalizations

Which car represents the greater value l.jpg
Which car represents the greater value? even personal identity!

  • 2002 car with 100k or a 1998 car with 50k?

  • Import car in OK/poor shape or a Domestic car in EXCELLENT condition?

(Normal annual mileage is

12 - 15k per year)

The truth about economy cars l.jpg
The Truth about “Economy Cars” even personal identity!

Rank the following Cars:

Which one costs $141 to replace the water pump?

Which one costs $624 to replace the water pump?

$33,000 MSRP

$18,000 MSRP



$46,000 MSRP

$10,000 MSRP



Who would think that this car would have the most expensive repair l.jpg
Who would think that this car would have the most expensive repair?

And who would think that you could replace a water pump on a $46,000 Cadillac for under $150?

Of the cars on the previous page, the Acura would have the highest rating for dependability…but @ $545 to replace the water pump…you might want to think again about purchasing one!

So what is real economy about l.jpg
So what is real economy about? repair?

  • Reliability is NOT the same thing as economy!

  • Economy is about the bottom line…how much does it cost to drive a car

  • What does economical transportation look like?

Laugh if you want to but this was the cheapest car i have owned l.jpg
Laugh if you want to, but THIS was the cheapest car I have owned!

1983 Ford Econoline 150

10 mpg, but…

Very cheap and easy to repair-

This was the best economy car I had for 15 years!

Understanding wear cycles l.jpg

Tires owned!




ATF/Antifreeze change

Timing Belt


Water Pump

Air Conditioning

Automatic Transmission

Understanding Wear Cycles

Repairs 60 - 90k:

Repairs beyond 100k:

Sometimes a car with 100k on it is

cheaper to drive than a

comparable vehicle with 60k on it

The bottom line on economy l.jpg
The Bottom Line on Economy owned!

  • Gas Mileage is only part of the cost of operating a car

  • A car considered reliable isn’t necessarily the cheapest to drive

  • Lower miles on a car do not necessarily mean less repairs

  • Knowing your assumptions can lessen your disappointments

Slide19 l.jpg

You probably don’t NEED a car after all! owned!

There are other forms of transportation!

My suggestions l.jpg
My Suggestions owned!

  • Consider a $500 - $1500 car for the purposes of learning to drive

  • Determine what causes you the most anxiety about car ownership and try to reduce your exposure to those risks

  • Buy a car from a “Maintenance NUT”

Why consider this car l.jpg
Why consider this car? owned!

  • $1400 for a ’91 Accord with 215,000k !

The owner of this car kept meticulous records of

repairs and it drove absolutely like new!

Or this car l.jpg
Or this car? owned!

  • ’85 Olds $500

This car has an excellent engine, its safe, and it won’t matter if

you smash it up a little learning to drive!

Why start with a cheaper car l.jpg
Why start with a cheaper car? owned!

  • Most new drivers are very nervous

  • Nervous drivers make mistakes

  • Mistakes cost $$$, raised insurance premiums for years to come

  • A cheaper car means you will be less nervous

So where do we start l.jpg
So where do we start? owned!

  • How do I decide what make and model of car to buy?

  • How do I know how much I need to spend?

  • What is the most “bang for the buck” in terms of the usability of any given car?

Slide26 l.jpg

What can you learn from a junkyard? junkyard!

Some cars give their owners the “Blues”

Some cars end up junked sooner than you would expect

Certain models have consistently defective major components

For example l.jpg

The day I was here (at the junkyard) I saw 3 or 4 Mazda 626s in this condition…why are they there when they appear to be in great condition and only five to seven years old?

For Example…


Issues that send cars to a premature death l.jpg
Issues that send cars to a in this condition…why are they there when they appear to be in great condition and only five to seven years old?Premature Death

Expensive, “surprise” repair bills

Repairs for which no parts are available,often due to defective parts!

When buying a car, how can I minimize

my exposure to the risks of repair bills

I cannot afford?

Finding the right car doing your research l.jpg

Finding the Right Car- in this condition…why are they there when they appear to be in great condition and only five to seven years old?Doing your Research!

Researching the history and

reliability of specific models

In the case of the Mazda 626, I found a website for complaining owners whose transmissions failed

Obviously our research has to include sources that will help us find and avoid those lemon cars l.jpg
Obviously, our research has to include sources that will help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • Periodical Literature

  • Web sites; Governmental, Complaint sites, Consumer Websites, etc

  • The advice of mechanics, friends, relatives

Periodicals l.jpg
Periodicals help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • Consumer Reports is a good place to start

Examples of things in consumer s reports l.jpg
Examples of things in help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!Consumer’s Reports

  • Which cars are the most dependable?

  • What new laws or recalls will affect me?

  • Complaints and Recommendations

Slide33 l.jpg

This chart is from the help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

Consumer Reports

Annual Auto

Issue, published

each spring

Slide34 l.jpg

Millions of readers help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

contribute to the

data collected by


Reports, making

their resources

some of the best

available for

comparing cars.

Slide35 l.jpg

This chart is also help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

A part of the


Reports Annual

Auto issue.

Slide36 l.jpg

This chart is a list of help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!


for used cars that

statistically have had

a consistently

excellent reputation

over the years…

But keep it all in perspective l.jpg
But Keep it ALL in Perspective help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

Glenn, Karen Beach and I all own vans on this list!!!

And consumer reports doesn t include l.jpg
And, Consumer Reports doesn’t include… help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • Costs of maintaining a vehicle

  • Costs of typical repairs

Hence the car book l.jpg
Hence…The CAR Book help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • Compilation of Govern-

    ment data previously

    unavailable to the public

  • Focuses on Safety

  • Predicts maintenance costs and charts total costs of ownership including depreciation, etc.

Examples of helps the car book can give l.jpg
Examples of helps The CAR book can give: help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • Summaries of replacement costs for major and minor components on popular vehicles

  • Estimates the costs for preventative maintenance as prescribed by the manufacturers of the new cars

  • Complaint charts

  • Crash test results

  • Depreciation (Use this in your favor…you can

    get a 3 year old car for 60% of its new price!)

Web searches l.jpg
WEB searches help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • To locate Automobile related websites, try words such as “reliable used cars” or “automobile complaints” or “defective transmission” or “defective engine” or “automobile complaints” or “automobile recalls”, etc

What you will find on the web l.jpg
What you will find on the Web help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • Lots of complaint web-sites, some profane and not legitimate

  • Some helpful things

  • Some commercial sites, designed to make money off all information they provide

Some helpful web sites l.jpg
Some Helpful Web-sites help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!







Where to go for advice l.jpg
Where to go for advice help us find (and avoid) those lemon cars!

  • Your Host family

  • Trusted people like your advisor, neighbors, COM staff, etc

  • Ask around for referrals to a good mechanic – if you pick your mechanic FIRST, and have him recommend a car, you will always have someone to repair it! (I will include referrals at the end of this presentation)

Are there exceptions is it ever wise to buy a car your research says to avoid l.jpg
Are there exceptions – is it ever wise to buy a car your research says to avoid?

  • Yes when you can buy a car from a trusted friend

  • Yes when you are shown records for maintenance and repairs that outweigh or cancel out the other concerns (Ford Focus)

  • Yes when you can accept the faults of a vehicle, knowing its benefits outweigh the negatives (Astro Van)

Dealing with people l.jpg
Dealing With People research says to avoid?

  • Finding a Reputable Dealer

  • Finding a “private party”

  • Understanding Classified Ads

  • Understanding “Minnesota Nice”

  • Negotiating a Sale

Finding a reputable dealer is that an oxymoron l.jpg
Finding a Reputable Dealer research says to avoid? …(is that an oxymoron?)

  • New Car Dealerships

  • “Car Lot” used car dealerships

Buying a used car from a new car dealership l.jpg
Buying a used car from a research says to avoid? New Car Dealership

Have a higher concern for “nice cars” on their lot

Get business based on name plate of dealership, not on quality of service or repairs!

Lots of overhead, lots of salespeople means they

have to keep standards up (and prices!)

Get first pick of the used cars at the best prices

Used car lots l.jpg
Used Car Lots research says to avoid?

Typically have less concern for repeat business

Finding a reputable Used Car Lot is one thing…Finding a good car on such a lot is another!

Nearly ALL the cars here were rejected by

New Car Dealerships for some reason!

Locating a car from a private party l.jpg
Locating a car from a research says to avoid? “Private Party”

  • You may want to buy a car directly from the person who knows the most about it…the owner!

  • PP can tell you about repairs done, how the car was driven, etc.

  • Buying from a PP often is a rewarding experience

How do i locate a private party who is selling their car l.jpg
How do I locate a Private Party who is selling their car? research says to avoid?

  • Classified Ads in MN Daily, Tribune, Pioneer Press, Auto Trader, etc.

  • Web sites

  • Bulletin Boards at local establishments

  • Friends/referrals

Pros cons of the classified ads l.jpg
Pros & Cons of the Classified Ads research says to avoid?

  • Ads are expensive, so sellers are motivated to sell quickly!

  • Lots of competition getting to the right car before someone else

Terminology of the classifieds l.jpg
Terminology of the Classifieds research says to avoid?

  • Babied Owner claims vehicle has had all the “TLC” of a newborn baby

  • Sharp Vehicle is attractive overall

  • Good runner Usually means the car is ugly, but dependable

  • Highway miles Owner is claiming the high miles show less wear than you would expect normally since it was “Highway miles”

  • Mint Car is in virtually new condition…no flaws at all

  • Clean Usually meant to convey the body has no rust

Pros and cons of web searches l.jpg
Pros and Cons of Web Searches research says to avoid?

  • Sites like have lots of listings with photos

  • Slow turnover - Seller has lots of time to wait for his price…may be overpriced or need repairs (look at photo, try to date when the vehicle was listed)

Web sites with used car listings l.jpg
Web Sites with Used Car Listings research says to avoid?











  • And believe it or not, EBAY (but be wary)

East meets west china vs minnesota nice l.jpg
EAST MEETS WEST research says to avoid? China vs. “Minnesota Nice”

Just what is “Minnesota Nice?”

  • Non-interference in the lives of others

  • Indirect answers to your questions smothered in sickly smiles

  • Better to be a doormat than to upset anyone!

  • Saying little or nothing when upset, yet bearing a grudge for a long time

I have found a car how do i determine what it is worth l.jpg
I have found a car…how do I determine what it is worth? research says to avoid?

  • Carry a NADA guide, available at bookstores

  • Check the web:,,, newspaper classifieds, Auto Trader

  • Be careful to deduct for everything you can in determining value, and enter the EXACT model

  • After looking at a few cars you will know their value, and you may refine your search

  • It is NOT a criminal act to ask MORE than “book” value

How can i do a title search l.jpg
How can I do a title search? research says to avoid?

  • Find the VIN# of the vehicle

  • $25 for unlimited checks for 30 days or $20 for a single VIN check

  • (one free check)

Inspecting the car l.jpg
Inspecting the Car research says to avoid?

  • First Impressions

  • Things you can inspect yourself

  • Professional Inspection


If you are buying a beater to learn to drive ignore this but l.jpg
If you are buying a “beater” to learn to drive, ignore this, but

  • Pay attention to how the car looks to you

  • Look for evenness and consistency in the paint, door gaps, etc.

  • Check to see that doors, windows, locks all work (non-functional things can be SO annoying!)

Things you can check yourself l.jpg
Things you can check yourself this, but

  • Check all VIN numbers to see that they match (See for full description of where VIN#’s are located)

  • Check (or similar site) to see if the car has ever had a Salvage title

Before starting the car l.jpg
Before Starting the Car this, but

  • Lift the hood; check fluids

  • Inspect Radiator, hoses, belts

Starting the car l.jpg
Starting the Car this, but

  • Listen to the car start cold…there should be no unusual sounds from the motor

  • Look out the rear of the car. There should be no blue smoke. Some steam is normal for a few minutes, but not smoke.

  • After the car warms a little, put the transmission in R. It should not lag before engaging.

Slide68 l.jpg

Inspect the Tires this, but

Abnormal wear can

tell you

things about the car

the owner

may not know!

Automatic transmission fluid l.jpg
Automatic Transmission Fluid this, but

  • The fluid should be pink, have little odor

  • If the fluid is brown, smell it. Its normal to have some odor, but it should not smell burnt.

  • Level of fluid is checked only with car hot, on level ground

What are the advantages of having the car inspected professionally l.jpg
What are the advantages of having the car inspected professionally?

  • Pro inspections cost $50 - $80 but give you something to negotiate with…probably saving you that much money when arriving at a final price

  • Pro inspections are VERY thorough

  • Probably not necessary for a “beater”

A word about salvage titles l.jpg
A word about Salvage Titles professionally?

  • Salvage / Prior Salvage stamp vehicles should be at least 20% cheaper than comparable model

  • Don’t rule out a vehicle with prior salvage stamped on title, but be careful!

  • Have the vehicle inspected

One more thing l.jpg
One More Thing professionally?

  • Since the wear & tear on a car varies a LOT based on how it is driven, have the owner/seller take you for a ride and see how he handles the car. Is he hasty when going from Reverse to Drive? Does he “MASH” the accelerator and or brakes?

  • Ask him about the use of the vehicle

Negotiating a sale l.jpg
Negotiating a Sale professionally?

  • You MAY try to get a lower price on the phone, but the Seller may hang up on you! Asking price is not usually more than 10-15% higher than seller’s anticipated selling price.

  • Be careful not to point out things wrong with the car as though the seller was trying to cheat you!

  • Don’t be manipulated or pressured to buy. But at the same time, don’t ignore the advice of someone trying to help!

Dealing with details l.jpg
Dealing With Details professionally?

  • What is the procedure for payment?

  • Where do we go to transfer the Title?

  • What legal issues do I face?

  • How much insurance do I need?


What is the procedure for payment l.jpg
What is the procedure for payment? professionally?

  • Most sellers accept a personal check as down payment. If you do not follow through with the sale, the money is theirs to keep.

  • Buyer will return at a later time with Bank Check for the full amount and Seller returns the Buyer’s down payment.

  • Writing out an agreement may be a good idea.

Payment procedure continued l.jpg
Payment Procedure continued… professionally?

  • Alternatively, Buyer and Seller can go together to the bank to exchange funds

  • Buyer can carry a check from a bank that he could sign over to whomever he wishes

Where do we go to transfer the title of ownership l.jpg
Where do we go to transfer the professionally?Title of Ownership?

  • Its primarily in the Seller’s interests to go with the Buyer to insure the Title is properly transferred.

  • The Dept. of Motor Vehicle in Minnesota has several locations for transferring the Title of Ownership – they can be found in the Government Blue Pages in the front of the phone book

  • Going together and doing all the signatures in front of the DMV personnel can save you a lot of stress should you make a mistake

Title includes l.jpg
Title includes: professionally?

  • Odometer readings

    when issued

  • If the car has a “Lien”

  • VIN number

  • Owner(s) name/address, etc.

Be careful filling out the title as any alterations changes void the title l.jpg
Be careful filling out the title as any alterations/changes VOID the title!

  • Put your name down in USA order (family name LAST)

Slide80 l.jpg

Recommendations l.jpg
Recommendations official

  • Getting Insurance

  • Recommended Cars

  • Finding a Reputable Mechanic

  • Auto Body Repair


Insurance l.jpg
Insurance official

  • It is illegal to drive a car on a MN highway without insurance. You need insurance to pick up the car you buy…and you need the VIN# to insure it.

  • The liability insurance MN requires is probably not enough! Consider raising it, at least until you are a seasoned driver.

  • You, as driver of your car, are alone responsible for whatever you hit, regardless of “fault” and unless you carry collision coverage, the loss is yours.

Choosing insurance l.jpg
Choosing Insurance official

Because International Students are the riskiest group to insure and because they have the highest accident rate due to their unfamiliarity with cars…

  • Few companies insure unlicensed drivers

  • Those that do offer insurance to this group charge big bucks!

  • When you do find insurance, consider collision coverage in addition to liability

Understanding the types of insurance l.jpg
Understanding the types of Insurance official

  • Liability only covers damage you do to other people’s cars and property

  • Collision adds coverage for damage you do to your own car

  • Comprehensive covers damage such as storms, parking lot scrapes, etc.

Recommendations85 l.jpg
Recommendations official

  • The following cars are good choices but not your only choices!

  • If you are choosing to buy a cheaper car, ($500 - $1500) your choices are narrower and will depend more on the condition of the car than the make and model…but keep the following in mind~

Brand specific recommendations l.jpg
Brand Specific Recommendations official

  • Practically any Toyota- These cars accept abuse and neglect like no other car made.

  • Honda Accord, Civic, etc.- People LOVE these cars

  • Mazdas OK- They probably don’t last as long as Toyotas but usually good cars

  • Nissan- Good, simple cars

Recommendations continued l.jpg
Recommendations continued… official

  • Mitusbishi; repairs can be expensive, but if you find a good one you should be OK

  • Hyundai In recent years these cars have made big strides ahead in quality

  • Suzuki? If you get a good price, low miles

Cars things to avoid l.jpg
Cars / things to avoid official

  • 95-97 Plymouth / Dodge Neon head gasket

  • Late 90’s Mazda 626 AT

  • Late 90’s Mitsubishi Galant AT

  • GM 2.4 liter 4 cylinder

  • 00-02 Ford Focus check recalls

Specific cars to look for first the obvious ones toyota and honda l.jpg
Specific Cars to look for… officialFirst the obvious ones; Toyota and Honda

Toyota camry l.jpg
Toyota Camry official

  • These cars can last 250,000+ miles

  • Galvanized sheet metal means they don’t rust!

  • Great resale value

  • Act quickly to get

    one 

Chevrolet prizm toyota corolla l.jpg
Chevrolet Prizm / Toyota Corolla official

  • Prizm is the Corolla with Chevy name

  • Economical…should last 200,000 miles

  • Not much to worry about here

Honda accord l.jpg
Honda Accord official

  • Quick, responsive handling

  • Very reliable, satisfying ownership

Honda civic l.jpg
Honda Civic official

  • Very economical transportation

  • Very, very reliable!

Less obvious recommendations l.jpg
Less Obvious Recommendations… official

Cars you might have overlooked 

Ford escort mercury tracer l.jpg
Ford Escort / Mercury Tracer official

  • Cheap, dependable transportation

  • EASY to find competent mechanic to work on these cars

  • Available 2 door, 4 door, wagon

  • Lower purchase and resale value than import

Buick regal century l.jpg
Buick Regal / Century official

  • Dependability on a par with import cars

  • 3.8 liter motor is one of the best in automotive history, 3.1 is also good

  • Depreciates rapidly

    (3 year old value

    is 50% of new- very


Chevrolet corsica beretta l.jpg
Chevrolet Corsica / Beretta official

  • Discontinued in 1997, but if you find one in decent shape, consider it. 3.1 V6 (avoid the 4 cylinder engine)

Other things to think about l.jpg
Other things to think about official

  • Remember that finding a car “One Owner’ or from a person whose judgment you trust is your best asset in looking for a car

  • Almost any car in excellent condition is going to be a better choice than a more reputable car that has been abused

Cars to avoid issues to deal with l.jpg
Cars to avoid, Issues to deal with official

  • Ford Focus 2000 – 2002 (recalls)

  • Ford 3.8 liter motors in certain cars and vans 1992 – 1996

  • Chrysler vans with AT troubles

  • European luxury cars – complex electrical

  • Honda transmissions do NOT accept abuse! (shifting to drive while the car is moving in reverse)

Finding a mechanic l.jpg
Finding a Mechanic official

  • New car dealerships may have the latest diagnostic equipment and lots of “well-trained” mechanics, BUT that doesn’t guarantee they are good at fixing cars!

  • Mechanics without a franchise endorsement can only remain in operation if they do good work!

Mechanics l.jpg
Mechanics official

  • Auto Repair Service 965 Pierce Butler Route, St Paul 651-487-1431 Not far from CTC

  • Phalen Park Auto Repair(Kuan’s)1383 Arcade St. St. Paul, MN 55106 651-771-1590

  • Midwest Vee259 Como Avenue Saint Paul, Minnesota 55103 651 489-8853(specialists for european cars)

  • Baber Auto Repair Service 1690 Hamline Ave N Roseville, 55113 651-646-8661

Auto body repair l.jpg
Auto Body Repair official

  • Raymond Auto Body, Inc. 1075 Pierce Butler Route St. Paul, MN 55104 651 488-0588

Other issues to consider l.jpg
Other Issues to Consider official

  • The Law is the LAW – do not bring a casual attitude to the rules of the road; you must always have a licensed driver sitting next to you when on a learner’s permit. And all the rules apply to you even when nobody else is watching. 

Other issues the impound lot l.jpg
Other issues…the Impound Lot official

  • If you don’t know the parking rules of the city, beware!

  • Fees: $172 (Mpls) $208 (St Paul) for tickets and towing PLUS any storage fees

  • for rules in MPLS.

  • for St Paul rules

Other issues your owner s manual l.jpg
Other Issues…your owner’s manual official

  • Read it!

  • You might also want to find a general book on cars to get you started

  • (I knew a student who put too much air in his tires…they blew up on the highway going to Duluth. This wouldn’t have happened if he would have read the owner’s manual!)

I hope this presentation was helpful l.jpg
I hope this presentation officialwas helpful

  • Your greatest resource in finding a good car is the recommendations of friends and classmates who have some experience with cars

  • If you have an American host family, you can ask them as well

Good luck shopping l.jpg
Good Luck Shopping! official

(I think this Lamborghini costs more than your education!)