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MOHM - 5. The Irish Catholic Church in Ireland and in the Irish Diaspora. when the English came, they came as protestants.

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MOHM - 5

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Mohm 5 l.jpg

MOHM - 5

The Irish Catholic Church in Ireland and in the Irish Diaspora


When the english came they came as protestants l.jpg

when the English came, they came as protestants

  • Many people suffered, and many died, over many years, because they were Irish; and they died as Catholics. In some cases, the English offered special amnesties to Irish Catholics who would renounce their faith and become protestant. Naturally, the dishonor of any such agreement would not wash away; and the honor implicit in keeping the Irish Catholic faith was deep.

  • Opinió banal >

    http://www.geocities.com/stevenedw/irishcatholicism.html Steve Edwards


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But it was Catholics in Ireland who were understood to be “agents of a foreign power”

  • The beliefs that underlie the sort of strong anti-Catholicism once seen in Great Britain were summarized by William Blackstone (1723-1780) in his Commentaries on the Laws of England (1765-1769):

    As to papists, what has been said of the Protestant dissenters would hold equally strong for a general toleration of them; provided their separation was founded only upon difference of opinion in religion, and their principles did not also extend to a subversion of the civil government. If once they could be brought to renounce the supremacy of the pope, they might quietly enjoy their seven sacraments, their purgatory, and auricular confession; their worship of relics and images; nay even their transubstantiation. But while they acknowledge a foreign power, superior to the sovereignty of the kingdom, they cannot complain if the laws of that kingdom will not treat them upon the footing of good subjects.

    — Bl. Comm. IV, c.4 ss. iii.2, p. *54


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Estudiar en universidades católicas (o sea, subversivas)

  • Colegio Menor de San Patricio, o de los Irlandeses, en la Universidad de Alcalá de Henares (fundado por John O’Neill en 1630)


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Alcalá o Salamanca, Roma o París

  • Colegio de los Irlandeses en Salamanca


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Or military service in French and Spanish armies

  • French regiments


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BUT “ROMAN CATHOLICISM IN IRELAND”OR“IRISH CATHOLICISM” ?

  • Not exactly the same


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Catholics against the “Church of Ireland” (Anglican)

  • Irish Anglicans, members of the Church of Ireland (a fully autonomous province of the Anglican Communion), in the past often called the Anglo-Irish, and of other Anglican churches, include or have included the following persons. Membership does not necessarily indicate personal Christian faith.

    WIKI:XI.08


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The Bishops or the POPE IN ROME?

  • The problem of CONCORDATS

  • State to State agreements between earthly powers and the temporal power of the Papacy;

  • The local hierarchy only is to obey


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Irish diocesesSt. Patrick's Cathedral, Armagh Seat of the Archbishop of Armagh>>Primate of All Ireland

  • Roman Catholic dioceses in Ireland

  • Province of Armagh: Archdiocese of Armagh · Diocese of Ardagh and Clonmacnoise · Diocese of Clogher · Diocese of Derry · Diocese of Down and Connor · Diocese of Dromore · Diocese of Kilmore · Diocese of Meath · Diocese of Raphoe

  • Province of Cashel and Emly: Archdiocese of Cashel and Emly · Diocese of Cloyne · Diocese of Cork and Ross · Diocese of Kerry · Diocese of Killaloe · Diocese of Limerick · Diocese of Waterford and Lismore

  • Province of Dublin: Archdiocese of Dublin · Diocese of Ferns · Diocese of Kildare and Leighlin · Diocese of Ossory

  • Province of Tuam: Archdiocese of Tuam · Diocese of Achonry · Diocese of Clonfert · Diocese of Elphin · Diocese of Galway, Kilmacduagh and Kilfenora · Diocese of Killala


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Irish Catholics in the USA

  • USA in the XIXth century

    =

    WASP

    (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants)


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A fixed image

  • Brutal, sub-human immigrants


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“Rum Irish”

  • Tavern sociability for men; parish sociability for women


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“Rum Irish” controlling the vote


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Irish Catholics and the Democratic Party in the USA

  • Population density of people born in Ireland, 1870; these were mostly Catholics; the older Scots Irish immigration is not shown.


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Anti-Catholicism in the US = Anti-Irish

  • The “Know Nothing Party”


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An international problem in smuggling & corruptionHAVE THEY NO MORALS?Can’t the Papist Church do something?


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Or is the Roman Church the real problem?

  • Thomas Nast, 1876, the Republican caricaturist


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A “Papist danger” to Protestant America?Thomas Nast, 1876


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The “Parochial School system” in the US, parallel to Public Education


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The sin of “Modernism” or “Americanism” > Pius IX & Vatican Council I

  • Sólo el catolicismo es verdadero; no hay concesiones

  • (Lutheran parochial school)


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In the USA, an Irish “market” and an Irish “opinion”

  • Not Derry or Belfast: BOSTON


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Hyphenated Americans? Or just nuts?

  • The Chicago River, dyed green for the 2005 St. Patrick's Day celebration.


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Irish-American distribution, c. 2000


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Just foolishness?

  • Note the green beer


  • Login